UFOs & Religious Experience / Psychic Development

About the show

In the first half, guest host George Knapp spoke with Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about the convergence of UFO phenomena and religious experience. Pasulka said she began her research into UFOs as a skeptic. "I was a disbeliever," she explained. However, within six months of studying the topic, she discovered evidence of a government program investigating the phenomena. She described years of interviews with witnesses, scientists, and insiders tied to government UFO studies, including what she called "legacy programs." "There's too much evidence to say that this isn't real," she stated.

Pasulka claimed that religion offers a framework for understanding anomalous encounters. Her background in Catholic history—specifically the study of angel visions—has helped her draw connections between historical religious events and modern UFO reports. She said faith traditions have long dealt with "human interface with non-human intelligence," and pointed to Virgin Mary apparitions, angels, and other religious phenomena as parallel to UFO sightings. Pasulka discussed a 1960s case in Spain where four young girls reported encounters with luminous beings they identified as the Virgin Mary and Saint Michael. She noted both apparitions and alien encounters involve small groups of witnesses, altered consciousness, and apocalyptic messages about humanity's future.

On the question of whether UFO phenomena might be demonic in nature—a concern raised by some high-ranking government officials—Pasulka noted that the Catholic tradition uses the term "preternatural" to describe non-human intelligence that may be either beneficial or malevolent. She advocated for applying religious wisdom in distinguishing between benign and harmful encounters.

---------------

In the second half, Hakim Isler, an expert in remote viewing, ninjutsu, and wilderness survival, discussed the development of psychic potential and his latest project, the Psi Games. His fascination with these disciplines began in childhood, when he said he dreamed the national lottery numbers and once told his mother he would grow up to be a ninja. Years later, that early instinct evolved into a long career in ninjutsu and a deeper search into consciousness. This quest for understanding led him to train at the Monroe Institute, where he worked with established figures such as Paul Smith, Joe McMoneagle, and Angela Thompson Smith.

Reflecting on his early training, Isler emphasized the importance of detaching from outcomes. He noted that his most successful session, which involved the remote viewing of Devil's Tower, occurred when he was under significant stress and forced to prioritize speed over perfection. Isler framed these skills as tools for everyday life, specifically for strengthening intuition. "One of the things that you find with remote viewing is there's a thing called self-editing, and quite often it's the thing that the instructors warn you against," Isler explained. He argued that ignoring intuitive hits because they lack logical explanation is a missed opportunity.

Isler also touched on his background in special operations and his appearance on the survival program Naked and Afraid, noting that extreme conditions often heighten human sensory perception. He now organizes the Psi Games, an series of events designed to make parapsychological research accessible and engaging to the public. The games features five core disciplines: remote viewing, dowsing, precognition, mind sight, and psychokinesis. Isler framed the project as a necessary evolution in how society views human consciousness. "We want to be the psychic Olympics," he shared.

---------------